A hip-hop odyssey
April 9, 2004
[img]http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/04/08/mayajupiter.jpg[/img]
A class of her own: Maya Jupiter outlines the four pillars of hip-hop. Photo: Marco Del Grande; chalkboard from IKEA,
02 9418 2744.
Maya Jupiter is showing me how to get the party started. "You've gotta hype the crowd," says the Sydney hip-hop artist,
punching the air and dancing on the spot with the grace of a featherweight boxer. "Say 'Put 'em up! Let me see your hands in the
air!' "
My palms are sweating. I'm grasping my microphone like a pilot trying to pull an aircraft out of a nosedive.
"Yo, yo," I say, in a desperate attempt to ease myself in. I'm fairly sure I heard Eminem say something similar in the movie 8 Mile.
Jupiter isn't impressed and stops the music. "Don't say 'Yo'," she says. "Yo is wack. Say 'Uh, c'mon.
Yeh, c'mon'." In the mouth of an experienced - and, let's be frank, beautiful - 25-year-old rapper, these phrases seem natural and
completely authentic. Mumbled by a nervous 40-year-old man with an accent shaped by a decent English school, they fall limply onto the studio floor
where they wither and die.
"Er, come on," I say like a teacher admonishing a dim student. "Come on."
Like many men my age, I have a secret passion for hip-hop. I love its aggression and its "phat" beats. I'm what's known as
"old skool" - I still know the words to Grandmaster Flash's 1982 hit The Message - but I'm perfectly willing to give today's
generation a go. Jay-Z and 50 Cent are on high rotation in my car and I sometimes fantasise I've got a 9mm stashed under the seat instead of a
tennis ball and an old copy of The Trading Post.
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The idea of becoming a rapper seemed crazy at first. But, really, how hard could it be? You don't need to sing a note, the rhymes are rudimentary
and the grammar's terrible ("So come give me a hug if you into getting rubbed," raps 50 Cent on In Da Club).
My hip-hop odyssey began earlier at a workshop at Glebe Town Hall. My tutor was Bravo, a charming 22-year-old who runs a weekly class for rappers
willing to "push themselves outside their comfort zone". I was outside my comfort zone calling someone Bravo, so it seemed a logical place
to start.
Arriving at the town hall, I half expected a class of sullen introverts - alienated kids with bad attitude. The reality was quite different.
Bravo's students were a mixed group of bright, attractive youths in their very early 20s. Complex handshakes were exchanged.
It was a bit like walking onto the set of a Pepsi commercial.
This was a freestyle workshop. For those not immersed in hip-hop - a culture whose four pillars are breakin', DJ-ing, MC-ing (rapping) and
graffiti art - freestyling is the art of making up raps on the spot. We threw topics at each other - travel, work, paint - and started to rhyme.
"Go full force," advised Bravo. "Blow the crazy shit out of the corners of your mind." He meant we should keep rapping even if our
mind was blank; our subconscious would fill in the gaps. I asked if there was a danger our subconscious would throw up something embarrassing, like a
long-held attraction to Guns & Ammo magazine or a banned sexual act?
"Oh yeah, it's happened," says Bravo cheerfully.
As the only myopic member of the class, I was given the topic "glasses". I mumbled something about Clark Kent and "making passes at
girls in glasses". My "flow" was slower than a blocked sewage pipe, but the class applauded politely. I felt strangely exhilarated:
maybe I could do this?
The next step was to choose a hip-hop name. Your mum may call you Anthony, but a name like Tonedeff is more appropriate when you're hanging with
your homies. I asked Bravo's students for a suitable pseudonym for a mild-mannered, 40-year-old rapper from Coogee. "MC 40," was the
first suggestion.
"What about Square For Art Thou?" said Arrow, a dark-haired girl from Enmore. Smitten by the name's Shakespearean "flava", I
decided I'd found my perfect hip-hop handle.
My first job as an L-plate rapper was to get something down on paper. Jupiter had advised us to "write what you know", so guns, crack and
bitches were off the menu. I needed a rap that explained my world - 20 minutes later, I had it.
Straight Outta Coogee
I come from Coogee y'all, only metres from the surf. The real estate's inflated, but it's my favourite bit of turf.
Drive a green Mazda hatch, my mechanic thinks it's wack. Two people in the front, my shopping in the back.
Drink lattes at the cafes, do yoga when I ache. Busting laps at Wylie's is the way I stay in shape Bling ain't my thing, but I've gotta
nice watch. It's made by MC Seiko, cost a lot more than a Swatch.
Get my clobba from Dee Jays, 'cos I'm too old for Marcs. Wear Birkenstock sandalz on walks in national parks.
Got a mortgage and a cat, but I ain't wed. I'm not gay, just ain't met the right girl yet.
Excited, I emailed Straight Outta Coogee to Heidi Pasqual, founder of Sydney's all-female hip-hop label, Mother Tongues. I realised my gender
prevented her offering me a contract, but wondered if Square For Art Thou (or S-FAT 1 as I had already taken to calling myself) had a future?
Pasqual had no doubts. "Does the world need a white, middle-class rapper from Coogee?" she mused. "The question is, should that group
be denied a voice? I don't think so." It was staggering. Two days in and there was already a music industry buzz around S-FAT 1. Sensing an
opportunity, I fired off my rap to a bunch of prominent American hip-hop record labels. Def Jam didn't reply and I'm still waiting to hear
from Tommy Boy and Bad Boy Records.
I'd almost given up hope, when an email arrived from New York's Skygod Entertainment. Pat Rocco, Skygod's chief executive and No. 1
artist (he raps as Lordroc) was eager to give S-FAT 1 his props.
"Stay true to what you do and sooner or later people will take notice," wrote Rocco encouragingly. "There is a big Christian rap market
out there. Target that audience first, then try to go mainstream."
A few days later, Bravo called. He suggested the next step in my career should be to test my freestyle skills in a rap "battle". Battles, as
anyone who's seen 8 Mile knows, are verbal stoushes in which two rappers put each other down with as much wit, style and foul language as they
can muster. The winner is decided by the audience's applause. I asked Bravo how he would "attack" me if we were matched on stage. He
didn't pull any punches:
"You're feeling the burn of my rage on the microphone.
When did they turn this club into an old age home?
You want me to come at this man with a flaming attack?
OK, as long as you don't blame me if he has a cardiac.
Arrest of his chest when I flex my wit. In this test I'll impress while this grandpa has a fit.
He's tall and he's scrawny. His calls are so corny. But it's not his fault - the poor guy just turned 40!"
Nufunc, a Wednesday night hip-hop event at North Sydney's Greenwood Hotel, was to be where S-FAT1 would launch himself, destroying rival MCs with
his tough-but-fair rhymes.
As I walked into the hotel, I felt ready. Jupiter had suggested I upgrade my image with a Cyber Thief T-shirt and a pair of Nike Air Force 1 sneakers,
but I didn't want to conform to a hip-hop stereotype. My Gap jeans, comfortable suede shoes and plain brown T-shirt were simply a cloak of
conformity disguising the "mad skillz" within.
The air was heavy with smoke and beats. At one end of the room, a DJ was spinning vinyl, his body casting sinister shadows on the walls. MC Losty, an
experienced rapper from Blacktown, grabbed the microphone and fired up the crowd. A sea of baseball caps nodded in unison as Losty prowled the stage
and called for battle volunteers.
"Are you good?" yelled MC Losty. Hands shot up among the young, predominantly male, crowd. MCs with names like Ballistic, Chameleon and
Double D were eager to rumble.
The first battle got under way.
"You f---in' wannabee, you f---in' punk," screamed a skinny kid at his opponent. Their faces were inches apart, but his target
didn't blink.
As each new MC took the stage, my resolve began to crumble.
I sensed the crowd would not appreciate the gentle rhymes of Straight Outta Coogee. In my heart, I knew S-FAT 1 was out of his depth.
Fifteen minutes later, Coogee's first 40-year-old rap star was in a taxi, heading south over the Harbour Bridge. I remembered Eminem's
words: "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow/This opportunity comes once in a lifetime, yo." For an instant I thought
about turning back. But Lateline was on and I hadn't fed the cat.
Maya Jupiter
"I'm a positive MC. My lyrics are optimistic, but if you want to step to me, let's go! I've still got that battle cat in
me."
Maya Jupiter's hip-hop journey started in her early teens, when she would sing along to records by Salt-N-Pepa and Naughty by Nature. Born in La
Paz, Mexico - her father is Mexican, her mother is Turkish - she chose Maya as her "artistic name" when she was 17. Today, she's one of
Australia's best-known hip-hop artists, the host of Triple J's Hip-Hop Show and an educator, who runs music workshops in conjunction with
South Sydney Youth Services and Redfern PCYC.
Maya Jupiter's album Today is out now on Mother Tongues. Bravo's freestyle workshops are held every Saturday at noon at Glebe Town
Hall. The cost is $5, phone 0423 986 465.
Nufunc is held at the Greenwood Hotel, North Sydney, every Wednesday, 8pm-1am. Admission is $10/$5 for members, phone 9964 9477.
alright
Whilst impressed with the passion of these heads the journo still takes the piss outta the culture.Why?I hope he crashes his new red Ferrari while
going through his mid life crisis.
my first reaction was to roll my eyes.
then i thought, maybe i should read it before i dismiss it. so i got my specs and a cuppa and was disappointed.
this is the kind of weak, tourist writing that goes nowhere and fails to get across the complexity of hip hop. it relies on stereotype and jokes to
convey a fairly bland 'message'
shame, really. better get MY write on. ha. ha. ha.
I thought he was taking the piss outta himself more than outta the culture.
It did make me cringe in bits, but overall pretty entertaining. not bad
Honestly, so what if he knows the words
to The Message, so do 99.9% of other people
that were into popular songs in the 80's,
for f*ck's sake I've walked past the Burdekin
on a Friday Afternoon and some DJ will be
playing shitty refuse disguised as music and
then bang the Message comes in, oh wow
what a surprise. Has he heard of the Fearless
Four, Cold Crush, DJ Hollywood, Chapter Three,
Just Four, Pookie Blow, Grand Wizard Theodore.
Going back to the article he then goes on to say
'I'm willing to give today's generation a go',
he lists 50 Cent and Jay Z. My friend
there's a shitload more than that, damn
Ghostface, Cee Lo are saying that 50 Cent isn't
coming with lyrics, he is a marketable commodity,
nothing more same with his whole G-Unit entourage,
keep on making those wack sneakers and join the
other 50 million other shoe companies who are
jumping on the whole 'old school' sneaker
bandwagon.
How hard can it be, he says, well it's a
lot harder on writing an article on a culture you
know nothing about. Funny, I don't see him doing
a weekly radio show or doing interviews for no pay.
I wonder how much you got for this assignment Richard
and stop quoting 8 mile go and watch Freestyle: The Art
Of Rhyme or better still go and hunt down hunt down the
documentary on Columbian Hip Hop where,
where kids relatives are kidnapped and a country
where thugs pour sulphuric acid on people after
they kill them so they're families can't recognise them.
Do you still wish you had a gun under your seat?
A lot of people have made sacrifices for the
artform that Mr Jinman thinks he can summarise
in a two page story, fights with family members,
being obsessed with it, breaking up with girlfriends/
wives and doing it because this is the only thing they
know.
It's funny while we're on the subject I remember at
the Stealth conference one of the journalists from the
Metro section saying we wait for people to send us stuff,
for fucks sake give the job to Blaze, Mark P, Mark H,
myself, Frenzie anyone who spends 24/7 seeking out new
music, stop thinking that because you get a paycheck
you can get away with writing Bullshit reviews and PR
pap articlesm don't even get me started with the Tabloids.
Run an article on how Graff is vandalism and then say how
fashionable graff prints are on t-shirts. f*ck I was in QVB,
just passing through and Versace have Hip Hop T-shirts
and there are stores such as Ghetto shoe concepts in
Darling Harbour with surprise surprise Puma Suedes.
Ha, let's see how long all these bloodsuckers last.
If Jinman's article was on jazz, rock or the works
of a famous author / artist and he wrote this drivel
it wouldn't be tolerated.
[Edited on 12-4-2004 by Size 13]
[Edited on 14-4-2004 by Size 13]
I felt like he was taking the piss out of himself but disrespecting the culture, he had no idea of hip hop.
It looks like he wants to live his Eminem fantasy, I just hoped he asked his mum first.
woah woah feel the verve of your invective from here-- write a letter to the herald, email him this thread, just dont let it die here if you are that
shitted off.
It was another lame attempt from a misguided hack.
Shame he had to taint Maya with his stupid brush. Anyway, she's a trooper & he's a useless journo if that was the best angle he could
come up with.
PAthetic & sad.
Oh why o why?
also means that the next time I read something from him, I'll take it with a grain of salt.
this is the same as the thread posted at ohh.com, about ian maxwell's book "phat beats dope rhymes"-- a lot of ppl pretty shitted off
or disappointed or just shaking their heads... i think as writers in the public eye, jurnos and authors need to see the effect hey have. i'm
going to track this guy's email down and see if i can email him this thread. maxwell is next.
Now that I have had some time to think about where this guy is at...he is not to different to a lot of the "academic writers" that Hip Hop
is producing at the moment.
There are a lot of 30+ people out there that now have the time, money and education to start writing about things that they had to leave behind in
search of more career and monetary (life) based goals.
Not everyone has the time or the ambition to be fully involved. I just did a review on Patrick Neales book “Where you’re at” and as it is different in
the sense that he takes a global view of Hip Hop rather than “where the scene is at now”, but he was looking to other places, other experiences, in
order to feel that he is still connected with the scene.
We make choices everyday about what makes us happy, or what makes you feel that we belong to a group, culture, or family. Hey..I just found out I can
get fat laces from my local skate shop (some skinny dude used to sell them at the Marble here in Melbourne for $10 back in 1985!)
There are times that periodically we seek these things that make us feel whole, even if it is just to “catch up”. Point at me personally for that last
statement…I just spent Easter with a brother and sister I am lucky to see once a year. But that was enough to recharge the soul.
People may only see or find solace in Hip Hop once a year, and they feel happy with that. Others need it every day.
At least he took a step to make himself involved, as superficial as it seems. Personally I do not own anything by Jay Z or 50, but that is what is
available at the local record store, and that is what people are buying.
I’m happy with what he wrote because he did what he wanted to, felt at home (in a sense) and at least tried. Writing about it was incidental to the
experience I think (and hope).
[Edited on 14-4-2004 by Michael Robinson]
Mike it was lame.
Not very good at all.
All about having an 'angle'.
It was a dumb one.
Straight up. again I weep...
If we lay praise, even a small amount on such an attempt, then what does this send out to other lazy journos. They just keep doing it...and get paid.
Unless someone of a higher stature
within the Hip Hop community feels
the need, then I am quite content
with that post. If someone gets
his email, then by all means send him
this thread. Do you think he'll care,
though. I doubt it, to him it's just
another story he needs to get in by
the deadline for the weekend paper.
Maybe he should go and listen to
3:16 by Murs, it even had me
questioning how worthy I am.
But he probably rarely listens to
Hip Hop, except when he wants
to try and be hard. Forget a gun
go out in to Sydney CBD at 3,4,5am
I've seen people get knocked out
cold, their head bouncing off the
concrete. You're such a hard man
aren't you, Richard? I think the reason
you wish you had a gun is because you're
frightened that your card might be
pulled, but only you know that?
Blaze, I remember you wrote a letter to
Sydney Scope for their diatribe refuse
on the 2 Dogs album. Now see if someone
who has actually been part of the
culture more than half their life
feels the need to write a letter,
then that's more than understandable.
Sometimes the aftermath of getting
shit of my chest, is telling
myself to shut up. See I just did it
then. Far from a cop out, I just feel
that there's no need for an outsider
to broadcast his views, when
respected veterans don't feel the
need. Correct me if I'm wrong?
It was a piss poor article,
but should we be surprised?
[Edited on 14-4-2004 by Size 13]
If he really wanted to be in the culture then why would he make comments like “I sometimes fantasise I've got a 9mm stashed under the seat”? or
that “guns, crack and bitches were off the menu.” Even when he went to rap workshop “half expected a class of sullen introverts - alienated kids with
bad attitude” To put those lines in an Australian hip hop article shows ignorance and a complete lack of respect.
To think you can write a paragraph of rap and get some respect for it is utter bullshit. MC's write pages before showing anyone or even dare
calling themselves an MC. If Heidi from Creative vibes didn't completely diss and insult his rap then she was just being nice and that is a
fact.
I can't see how this guy really tried to be in the culture, he goes to one MC night and shits himself before jumping in a taxi rapping Eminem to
himself. I would have had more respect if he actually says that he stayed and listened to the MC's battle and through respect for those MC he
didn't participate.
Did anybody else notice how he only described what the 2 females looked like, Maya was “beautiful” and Arrow was a “darked haired girl from enmore”,
why didn’t he describe Losty’s or Bravo’s looks.
Quote:
1. “I sometimes fantasise I've got a 9mm stashed under the seat”?
Have you ever driven in heavy traffic in Sydney or Melbourne? I keep a pinch bar under mine! Just before Christmas is the worst...
I know South Africans who keep Shotguns under their passenger seats. That is a reality that they have brought from South Africa with them.
Not a nice thought, but when you have that gangsterism image in rap, then what do you expect people are going to think? That is another argument about
violence and TV, games, music etc…do we really subconciously take up the values and attitudes of what we see and hear as entertainment?
Quote:
2. “guns, crack and bitches were off the menu.”
Wubangers unite! That’s why MF Doom and Vast Aire etc get airplay at home and in the car…because they are lyrically interesting, not because they do
not protray that image (all the time). What he is talking of as being off the menu is “played out”, in my view. The one thing
I see at battles is the person who usually wins is the most creative and therefore is the least likely to swear. I only give a rapper one chance to
spit a verse on the above topic before I want to hear what he/she REALLY has to say…it’s the test of a real emcee.
3. Quote:
“half expected a class of sullen introverts - alienated kids with bad attitude”
I discussed this with another board member a few weeks ago. He described a Hip Hop character that always wore a hoody, and only used his eyes for
communication.
That is something that was ingrained in the culture. The alienated…its something from the past. When I went to Beat Fest…I saw a whole new generation
of kids, who for all their fashion and posing, where happy, had confidence and there was no negativity surrounding them. I was really glad to see that
as a culture we had become more awaree and more organised.
Quote:
4. Did anybody else notice how he only described what the 2 females looked like, Maya was “beautiful” and Arrow was a “darked haired girl from
enmore”, why didn’t he describe Losty’s or Bravo’s looks.
Maybe he’s NOT gay. Maybe he is a red-blooded male who actually digs good-looking chicks and tells others about them rather than hiding his
appreciation.
NEXT!
PS I am not defending this guy...I am not bouncing my own ideals or anxieties off what he has written, I do agree with Blaze that it is not good and
that when you do a colom for a major newpaper you will be comprimised in some way (editors etc)....however I will repeat that I hope the writing was
incidental to the experience.
If it is a problem for people to write about their Hip Hop experiences and or opions, and if they be they flawed or misguided, is that not what we
have magazine editors for? 
Maybe we should be higher and blame the SMM editor for stepping on Marks toes!!
[Edited on 15-4-2004 by Michael Robinson]
OK then Michael,
I will have to get back to you regarding this, my internet time is monitored at work.
“Have you ever driven in heavy traffic in Sydney or Melbourne? I keep a pinch bar under mine!”
Yes, I have been driving Sydney streets for 15 years, I was 17 when I started, rap never made me want to carry a gun under the seat or even fantasize
about it, I don’t keep anything under the seat except coke bottles. The reason is because I believe that if somebody starts trouble then they will
also finish it, I can give you 6 examples off the top of my head where the people who went looking for trouble after someone started it ended up
dead.
“that gangsterism image in rap, then what do you expect people are going to think?” And “guns, crack and bitches were off the menu.”
That is my point Michael, if this guy is into rap like he says then surely he knows that Australian hip hop is not about guns, crack, bitches and the
gangsterism image. Why is he portraying that to his readers? Why is he so disappointed that he can’t rap about it? The first rule of hip hop writing
is “write about what you know” he is suppose to be into rap and he needed that explained to him.
“half expected a class of sullen introverts - alienated kids with bad attitude”
once again
To put those lines in an Australian hip hop article shows ignorance and a complete lack of respect.
“Maybe he’s NOT gay. Maybe he is a red-blooded male who actually digs good-looking chicks and tells others about them rather than hiding his
appreciation.”
Maybe sex sells
” PS I am not defending this guy”
are you sure?
” If it is a problem for people to write about their Hip Hop experiences and or opions, and if they be they flawed or misguided, is that not what we
have magazine editors for?”
No that is not what magazine editors are for, they are there to make sure that the story gets to them on time, they are not going to check and clarify
the contents of an article.
“NEXT!”
what? Did you slay me or something?
Michael, without a doubt I have nothing but respect and admiration for your writings. I could read every line you write 2 or 3 times. Everything that
you write has value. Your writing leaves me for dead. I have spoken to others about your writings and they agree that you are switched on. I in no way
have taken offence at what you wrote and I am sure none was intended, just like none was intended or sent when I wrote this.
Are we cool?
[Edited on 15-4-2004 by claimin_true]
in my opinion [being the child of a journo], a good writer doesn't need to rely on cliche to describe an experience. yeah, sure, there is A LOTof negative attitudes to hip hop [ie, it being the realsm of guns, hoes and crack which is a misconception] BUT i just think if he was worth his salt,
he would not need to bring these outdates criticisms to bear on an issue he knew very little about.
i guess what i man is, instead of using the crack guns and hoes as his template {"this is what i expected, but didn't necessarily get} he
could have/ should have used the actual experience as his template {"this is what went on, and there were no crackhoes or guns in sight"} do
you see what i mean? setting the negative perception first in the narrative really only serve to reinforce it, because that is what sticks in the mind
of the non hip hop reader-- there isn;t the attitude of "wow, check this fresh shit out, it's quite amazing, and evenmore amazing, it's
hip hop". the prevailing attitude seems to me to be "we all know hip hop is about guns and crack, so lets see if we can find that"
do you see what i am getting to? i am a bit nonsensical today-- hope it makes sense.
ilse
NEXT!
Hey Claimin..Im enjoying this debate!
Actually I was waiting on Blaze to give me a serve….
As my work mate says..."your an optimistic mongrel aren’t you?" Maybe I was trying to put a good spin on things where there is none?
Differences of opinion will alway be there, and as long as there is fun, acceptance and understanding along way then we will always be cool.
Never take things personally…these are just ideas, and thoughs that may be edited at any time upon reflection (love that edit button by the way!)
Thanks for the complement too.
[Edited on 15-4-2004 by Michael Robinson]
yeah, we all wish you'd shut up JOKING
nah f*ck it man, i'd be more than happy to send him a link-- even if he doesnt read it, at least i feel like there's been some sort of write
of reply. and doing nothing will achieve nothing--
props to ya big guy
ilse
| Quote: |
thanks dude
i need to get some creative output in my life... does writing for stealth pay well??
Ok, so I didn't read it all...
I'm a little worried that the Chalkboard states "Graffiti art" as an element...
Am I paranoid or is someone making a veiled attempt to sanitise the validity of Graffiti in all forms by associating only to that (Graffiti), which
qualifies as art?
tsk tsk.
| Quote: |
so the only pay is notoriety huh?
yeah, im up for that.
when i finish my poopoo thesis, and find a place to live, and get a decent 'real' job, i'll get back to ya
[f*ck sydeny is an expensive, shitty city to be in sometimes. arent they all tho?....]
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
i wanna see em go head to head...
teddy bear v inspector gadget
nah nah don't turn on me please!! youse are both sick ay
Hey gerling,
dont you think me and Michael would be a good enough show, that sucks.
NEXT!
| Quote: |
but seriously, Size 13 rules!
Geez louise people, stop having a cry. If the aim of the article was to give an in-depth analysis of hip hop to the uninitiated, then you can get
angry at the guy. If the article hindered the progress of aussie hip hop in any way, then get angry.
At least he had a go at trying something new and had the decency to point out his own ignorance (quote:I half expected a class of sullen introverts -
alienated kids with bad attitude. The reality was quite different). It was a light-hearted article about an over-the-hill white dude's experience
as he delved into the realm of hip hop. Get over it - he never claimed to be an expert and he did not disrespect hip hop.
Maybe y'all should stop getting so emotional and find your sense of humour again.
you guys are sad!theres more to life than hip hop articles written by faggot white guys such as yourselves!you batty boy,have nothing in life but wack
rhyme, yr 10 drop out muthafuckas
1. I didn't drop out in Year 10
2. I couldn't give a f*ck about wack rhymes,
every moment of my life is lived, like I'm going
to die tommorrow.
3. Who are you posting under someone elses
name.
4.Eight years I've spent obsessed
over Hip Hop culture and good music
in general and doing things rather than posting
GUTLESS messages on boards. I don't
know you because you haven't posted your name.
Secondly you don't know me from a bar of soap.
You probably have f*ck all knowledge and
are ignorant because you choose to think
you're mighty, tell me what you've done and
don't give me this shit that you're too good.
I'm sure everyone would like to know.
Jennifer why do we take this so seriously
because like I said before it takes over your
whole life. If you think that's sad then whatever.
I could go on but I have a life outside of message
boards!!!!
Hey I'm seeing Bus 174 Tommorrow, should I be
laughing at police brutality in South America as well.
Cause that's so hilarious to me...NOT!
[Edited on 17-4-2004 by Size 13]
| Quote: |
Look everyone, there goes Jen and her gutless friends.
| Quote: |
From the responses I've got, looks like you still haven't finished crying yet. I never said that you're a loser if hip hop is your
livelihood - I give you all my respect. What I was amused at was the fact that some of the responses to the article were a little overreactive. Fair
enough if that article was enough to make your blood boil, but it seems as though you ripped into him without giving any concession to the guy who
wrote it. Criticising him for his ignorance of hip hop is stating the obvious. He admits his limited and cliched knowledge of hip hop in the first
paragraph (Maya disciplines him for his use of "Yo"
. Him writing
about his experience in the local hip hop scene at least lets readers who dont know yet that there is one alive and kicking and that there are a lot
of talented Australian emcees around.
By the way Claimin True....who the f*ck are you? Fake rasta dreads...wow, I'm so hurt. Tell me the specifics of how they set back the Aussie hip
hop scene 10 years and then I might actual think you are smarter than a dead pigeon. Maybe if you listened to their lyrics, you would hear them speak
about being proud to be aussie, they have songs about the sad state of our Koori people, they have songs about calling for peace. They may have been
stereotype in some aspects (I don't know cause I was about 10 years old), but at least their music was funky and made people aware that hip hop
was not just something you could get from the US of A.
And Size 13, what has South American police brutality got to do with the price of cheese?
Oh yeah, J-Wess rules.
| Quote: |
I asked for specifics. Anyway, I'm not here to defend them - say it to their face and not to me.
Thats fine. I was going to take that last message back but you beat me to the punch. I'm sorry if I have ever upset anyone with ANY of my posts
ever.
[Edited on 6-5-2004 by jennifer]
I wasnt hurt, so no worries claimin true.
Those Jennifer posts are the first aggressive and down right stupid posts to be recorded here yet!
I hope they go away....soon.
Jennifer,
if that is your attitude & you are the one who liked the article...well that pretty much sums it up for me.
Settle petal.
Defend the journo by all means, but what we have on this board are people who are just passionate about thier culture. We don't have access to
widespread media like the SMH & if we lie back & don't say anything, then we are just as guilty as he (Richard Jinman) is of
stereotypying & perpetrating a fraud.
I'm with Jennifer and Michael.
A little information in an amusing package is just the thing for some of us.
I've read a whole book by a non-cycling fan of the Tour de France who rode round France just for a bit of a lark. And I fucking loved it.
Maybe if the article was in Stealth I might give a shit but not a major newspaper cos it ain't aimed at hip hop heads.
[Edited on 19-4-2004 by badbreath]
i just think it's sad that something as rich and testured as hip hop continually gets repeditive, facile coverage by the mainstream media. why
should we be all introverted and say 'well, I KNOW what the truth is, and f*ck everyone else.'?? if it wasn't for people turning ME
onto hip hop, i wouldn't have found it when i did, and i wouldnt have developed such a love of it. why not show people outisde our culture how
amazing we can be-- while we might not convert them, its always good to get ppl thinking...
from KTpure
"i guess many SMH readers would consider Graff "artists" criminals..."
werd...Leo Schofield (art wanker) wrote for the SMH for many years and ran a relentless anti-graffitti campaign. the millions that the SRA has spent
since the olympics buffing everything probably owe something to his rantings. he was pissed off because some "sullen introverts" were
painting their "low art" on his properties (awww...)
remember this is the paper that publishes the private schools guide - to most of their target readership, hip hop is something that their kids do,
like taking ecstasy or sending sms.
having said that, the article was a fucked idea in the first place, offensive and ignorant all at the same time. i'm not saying it was supposed
to be investigative journalism, but it did nothing to change incorrect perceptions of the subject matter, except perhaps that MCing is something any
fool can do.
if only he'd entered a battle instead of crashing a workshop for teenagers.
just read it again.
could this ever cause offence?
| Quote: |
"Hi, been reading the postings on the site with interest (and occasional alarm!) and realised I appear to have upset a few people with Hip-Hop
Odyssey. There's a few points I'd like to make (and please feel free to post this letter on the site)
1) The article is supposed to be amusing. It was never supposed to be an in-depth piece on hip-hop and I assumed that was clear from the first
line.
2) It was not aimed at an audience who are knowledgable about hip-hop. Having said that, I think you'll find that hundreds, possibly thousands of
people who know absolutely nothing about the culture were given a taste of it - albeit at a mainstream, relatively superficial level - by the piece.
3) My intention was not to disrespect hip-hop or anyone involved in the scene. Old fart I may be (and hopefully I established my old fart credentials
quite well) but I do actually enjoy the diverse hip-hop I hear, mostly on FBI. I'm quite aware that artists such as 50 cent are utterly
commercial and just the tip of a diverse culture. I'm also quite aware that many people in the scene consider fiddy's music pop rather than
hip-hop.
4) Did I reinforce prejudices about hip-hop? Obviously, I hope not. What I was trying to do was get behind a mainstream perception of the form - the
bling, babes ethos - reinforced by endless video clip shows and suggest there was a far more creative and interesting culture alive and kicking in
Australia.
Anyway, I'll leave it there. I notice a few people suggested sending me threads by way of protest. I'd certainly encourage that kind of
feedback, but it's probably easier to just email me at rjinman@smh.com.au
Look forward to hearing from you.
All the best,
Richard Jinman"
the sky is blue
Some great opinions.
Nice line in the 4th paragraph too,
quote:
-------------------------------------------------
Mumbled by a nervous 40-year-old man with an accent shaped by a DECENT ENGLISH SCHOOL.
---------------------------------------------------
I'm glad Richard replied to the topic. Its good to voice an opinion. You are often heard!
[Edited on 9-5-2004 by Joe J]
for god sake people get a sense of humour, who cares if he was making jokes about hip hop, he was taking the piss out of himself and the article was
light and amusing. Learn to not take everything so seriously, he was being sincere in his approach, he wasnt trying to upset anyone or stereotype
stuff.
his intentions may have been light-hearted and humorous, but I think that people's annoyance and offence towards the article comes from the fact
that he was, in effect, promoting facts and images of hip-hop which are negative things, and displaying an ignorance which those of us who hold
hip-hop very dear can't tolerate in the context of a journalist trivialising hip-hop just to make an entertaining and light read for the SMH - an
institution which, as has been pointed out, holds no real love for hip-hop.
The article misrepresented hip-hop, whether it was intentional or not. It was offensive in that in displayed no real knowledge of the culture in its
depth, and although the author admitted that in his writing, one can ask why the hell he was writing about something he knows nothing of?
Hip-hop is something I take very seriously, and to see it recieveing that kind of attention is not a positive thing from my point of view. Hip-hop is
far more to me than a Sunday browse over breakfast, so I guess it upsets me when other individuals are treating it like such and promoting that
treatment and those attitudes in the wider community.
Trivialising somebody's culture is bound to evoke negative reactions from, whether that trivialisation was meant as a light-hearted joke or a
serious argument. So I don't see how you can dismiss people's reactions that easily...
i agree wholeheartedly with what you said notion.
i guess i feel a bit uncomfortable being the specimen under the microscope for a researcher who has their own agenda, and wont necessarily portray
what i wish them to see
i guess also that maybe we do take hip hop a bit too seriously sometimes, but it's an important part of our lives-- it's like the flavour in
an otherwise often bland repeditive world.
we are all very different people, us hip hop heads. we can be students, 9-5ers, 30somethings, 20somethings, teenagers, city kids or country kids, we
can be creators of one or more of the 4 elements, we can be dilettantes, we can be deeply immersed in the culture, or just dabbling in it. we can be
in the financial sector, the casual market research industry, the small business owning sector, we can be so many things, and so many combinations of
things. we have this music and this culture in common and its almost what keeps us going, in certain moments of our lives.
we are investigated because we have a depth of knowledge and practice that others are curious about and because we are often so passionate about our
culture that others want to know what they are missing out on...
we are a gimmick for companies trying to make more money, we are a target market, we are a powerful youth movement, we are a feared group by some, we
are misconceived and misrepresented by others. we can be introverted and dismissive of toys and those who arent clued in, we can be open to tutelage
and mentoring. we dont even all like the same branches of hip hop, or the same styles. we arent homogenous or a bloc. we are very diverse.
[Edited on 12-5-2004 by gerling]
| Quote: |
hahaSense of humour.
Ha! Bet I'm funnier than you!
Its caused passion.
Hip hop isn't something part time for some of us. It's who we are & what we do. It means something to us.
No way would I let an article that anjnoyed me slide.
US Army prison guards in Iraq thought their shit was funny. Wasn't very was it?
| Quote: |
| Originally posted by Stealth Magazine Looks like you need to write for us haha |
okay. i understand why the article may offend you.
However, trying to compare the article to the fun and games the US guards had with Iraqi prisoners is ridiculous.
i'm probably going to get vilified for that now.